The start of Descartes Finance came at a time when U.S. players like Wealthfront and Interactive Brokers were challenging traditional wealth management with low-cost, radically passive strategies.

Lucatelli, too, wanted to shake up the complacent Swiss retail and private banking landscape and prove that digital wealth management was not just an appendage of the old world.

On the firm’s tenth anniversary, the founder takes stock. In conversation with finews.ch, he remains as outspoken as ever – but behind every sharp remark lies visible experience and reflection.

Mr. Lucatelli, you come from the traditional banking world and decided ten years ago to launch a digital robo-advisor and asset manager. What was your expectation back then?

Already during my time at UBS, I knew that banks are, at their core, tech companies – they just didn’t want to draw the consequences. They clung to heavy core banking systems even though leaner solutions had long become a commodity in other countries, obtainable together with a banking license. I expected that to change here as well: that services would be offered digitally, clients addressed digitally, through social media or other channels. With digital natives wanting to manage their own money, it seemed only logical to me. What surprised me was the pace – or rather, the lack of it. People saw the development, found it interesting, but didn’t act.

Why were clients so hesitant?

Because life in Switzerland is simply too comfortable. Convenience is a powerful argument. Whether one pays 100 francs for an account or nothing was no reason for most people to switch. They wanted to wait and see: «Let’s see if this still exists next year…» And since it was about their own money, often retirement savings, they were cautious with new players lacking institutional backing – unlike, say, Frankly with ZKB.

You recently published an interesting retrospective on LinkedIn, including an honest look at your own missteps.

With Descartes, we approached the topic from the wrong end. Coming from a private banking background, I initially focused on discretionary wealth. In retrospect, like in the U.S., we should have started with retirement savings and expanded into discretionary wealth later on.

«With our current partners, we now reach between 600,000 and 700,000 predominantly working-age end clients.»

So you started with discretionary wealth management?

Yes. But during a visit to U.S. robo-advisors in 2017, two things became clear to me: first, that we were technologically more advanced than the Americans – for instance, in global multi-currency trading. And second, that their growth came from private or semi-private retirement savings – the 401(k) system, similar to our pillar 3a, since both are state-supported vehicles designed to build private retirement assets. I realized then that Swiss people don’t actually have that much discretionary wealth. A lot of it is tied up in compulsory pension savings or real estate. Once you account for expenses such as holidays, education, health insurance, and mortgages, plus pillar 3a contributions, most people don’t have much left. That’s why private banking clients here are usually beyond retirement age – except perhaps for entrepreneurs or top executives. For the general population, free investable wealth is small.

So the idea that every second person on Bahnhofstrasse can casually move two million francs from one bank to another is wrong?

Completely wrong. The average Zurich resident can’t just spontaneously afford a Kelly bag either (laughs). That doesn’t mean they’re poor. Their wealth is simply tied up. And in those tied-up assets, values have risen sharply – thanks to the stock market, immigration, limited space, and the zero-interest environment. There’s a lot of money in retirement savings – and that’s where investment can be standardized. Traditionally, the Swiss investor was more of a «single-stock investor»: my generation preferred to buy Nestlé, Roche, or Stadler rather than trust a fund. A robo-advisor with standardized portfolios didn’t quite fit that mindset.

Many people think: «Nestlé pays dividends, people will always eat…»

Exactly. Or: «Roche, people will always get sick», and «Trains will always run, so I’ll take Stadler.» That logic often worked here because we’re a dividend market. You could always harvest dividends, and the market moved steadily upward. But such a strategy is simplistic and risky in the long term. This mindset is now slowly fading. Younger investors think differently.

«Private banking clients here are usually beyond retirement age.»

How differently?

They want simple, clear solutions – «don’t make me think». They come from a digital world that avoids complexity. And once they invest, they tend to stay invested rather than constantly moving in and out. That prevents performance losses – a big advantage.

Between 2017 and 2019, you recognized that retirement savings were the better entry point?

Yes. That’s where the major savings of younger and middle-class people are concentrated. The vested-benefits account is also gaining importance because career paths today are more flexible. In the past, taking a break was seen as lazy – today it’s normal, and that creates liquidity that should be invested. Not left in a bank account to facilitate lending, but invested in a portfolio for oneself. This mindset has spread thanks to financial bloggers and new media, and is now almost mainstream. But many incumbents are still trapped in old-world thinking – with their cash cows, old-style private banking, and overpriced, actively managed retail funds. That’s slowing innovation. Still, the change is coming – just more slowly than expected.

You then reoriented Descartes toward a B2B2C model focused on pension partnerships.

That was an important step. In the digital world, it’s perfectly normal to be both competitor and partner – «coopetition». You can make a working platform available to others who don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Many banks struggle with that. They believe they have to do everything themselves because the client supposedly comes «for them». In reality, clients stay if they get honest advice, transparency, and fair prices. No one minds if an institution uses a good third-party product. I believe we’re on the verge of a leap. Once the first 15 to 20 percent of customers switch from the old to the new world, things will grow exponentially.

«In the digital world, it’s perfectly normal to be both competitor and partner.»

Which partners are most important for Descartes in the B2B2C model?

Mainly Yuh, Neon, and the Glarner Regionalbank. They all share similar needs: they want digital solutions for their clients but without giving up the client relationship.

And you plan to expand that?

All the major neobanks, with which we share a lot as a digital provider, would of course be interesting. Basically, only Revolut is missing (laughs). Seriously though: with our current partners, we reach between 600,000 and 700,000 predominantly working-age end clients. For a country with nine million people, that’s strong. But naturally, we’re looking to expand this base even further.

Volume alone isn’t everything. Coop had hoped to leverage its vast customer base with Finance Plus – half the country buys milk and eggs there. Why didn’t that work?

That was probably a bit naïve. Ideally, partners in such an ecosystem come from the same industry. Or at least they deliver on their core brand promise. If you’re a retailer offering financial products, you need to be among the cheapest in the market. It would be different if you were Patek Philippe – but their clients are probably less interested in pillar 3a.

«Our independence is our biggest advantage.»

Coop Finance Plus wasn’t the only one. In the Swiss fintech world, several ambitious projects have failed or are struggling – Volt from Vontobel, Radicant… Why don’t these projects take off?

Because they’re mostly conceived and run by people from the old world. They think you just have to bolt something digital on – and it’ll run, infinitely scalable. But if you want to succeed in this space, you have to think digitally. Often, they were also «over-engineered»: typically bank – everything perfect, everything expensive. But the Swiss market is small. When success doesn’t come, it’s: «I always said this would never work!» – and the project is shut down. The idea was usually good, just too big and too expensive. At Descartes, we always had to manage carefully. We pay our own salaries, we write our own checks – that changes your mindset. Many corporate initiatives don’t survive because they’re set up too luxuriously. Customer acquisition costs are enormous, and the belief that you can win lots of clients quickly through bonus campaigns has proven misguided.

And the market size was probably overestimated too?

Yes, definitely.

Today there are numerous players – from large banks to neobanks and international providers like Revolut. Where do you see the path ahead for Descartes?

Our independence is our biggest advantage. We’re practically the only ones that don’t belong to a bank, don’t distribute our own products, and don’t operate our own foundations. We also don’t plan to lose that independence by obtaining a banking or securities house license. To survive in Switzerland, you must remain entrepreneurial and opportunistic. The market is already divided, entry costs are high, and newcomers will struggle. Anyone entering today has to invest millions that will be hard to recoup later. We’re Finma-regulated, our technology is complex. But for us, the situation is good. We’ve built a strong name, a clear place in the market – perhaps the slightly more refined one among digital providers. I’m confident. But without the B2B component of the B2B2C model, it would be much tougher.

Adriano Lucatelli is the founder and CEO of Zurich-based fintech firm Descartes Finance, which he launched in 2015. Previously, he served as Managing Director and member of the Management Committee at UBS Switzerland, and held senior roles at Credit Suisse in Zurich and London. Lucatelli holds a PhD in economics from the University of Zurich, master’s degrees from the London School of Economics and the University of Rochester, and a bachelor’s degree from the University of Nevada. Between 2012 and 2018, he lectured on international financial markets and monetary policy at the University of Zurich.